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	<title>Comments on: Is it our nature to dominate?</title>
	<link>http://bigbigquestion.com/2008/04/04/is-it-our-nature-to-dominate/</link>
	<description>Question As Conversation</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: russilwvong</title>
		<link>http://bigbigquestion.com/2008/04/04/is-it-our-nature-to-dominate/#comment-2246</link>
		<dc:creator>russilwvong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bigbigquestion.com/2008/04/04/is-it-our-nature-to-dominate/#comment-2246</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Which led me to wonder - is it not our nature as a species to create [structures of power and control]?&lt;/em&gt;

I would tend to agree.  &lt;a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2267/is_n4_v61/ai_15955163/print" rel="nofollow"&gt;Robert Jervis&lt;/a&gt; quotes Hans Morgenthau: &lt;blockquote&gt;More than is true for later scholars, Morgenthau traces much of the source of the necessary evil in politics to human nature and "the animus dominandi, the desire for power". Pure selfishness and the desire to gratify basic human needs, such as shelter, food, and security, would only produce some of the conflict we see in our social world because those impulses can often be gratified through cooperation on the basis of mutual respect and equality. "The desire for power, on the other hand, concerns itself not with the individual's survival but with his position among his fellows once his survival has been secured. Consequently, the selfishness of man has limits: his will to power has none".&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Andrew Schmookler provides a different argument, independent of assertions about human nature, in &lt;a href="http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC07/Schmoklr.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;The Parable of the Tribes&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Imagine a group of tribes living within reach of one another. If all choose the way of peace, then all may live in peace. But what if all but one choose peace, and that one is ambitious for expansion and conquest? What can happen to the others when confronted by an ambitious and potent neighbor? Perhaps one tribe is attacked and defeated, its people destroyed and its lands seized for the use of the victors. Another is defeated, but this one is not exterminated; rather, it is subjugated and transformed to serve the conqueror. A third seeking to avoid such disaster flees from the area into some inaccessible (and undesirable) place, and its former homeland becomes part of the growing empire of the power-seeking tribe. Let us suppose that others observing these developments decide to defend themselves in order to preserve themselves and their autonomy. But the irony is that successful defense against a power-maximizing aggressor requires a society to become more like the society that threatens it. Power can be stopped only by power, and if the threatening society has discovered ways to magnify its power through innovations in organization or technology (or whatever), the defensive society will have to transform itself into something more like its foe in order to resist the external force.

I have just outlined four possible outcomes for the threatened tribes: destruction, absorption and transformation, withdrawal, and imitation. &lt;em&gt;In every one of these outcomes the ways of power are spread throughout the system.&lt;/em&gt; This is the parable of the tribes.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Which led me to wonder - is it not our nature as a species to create [structures of power and control]?</em></p>
<p>I would tend to agree.  <a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2267/is_n4_v61/ai_15955163/print" rel="nofollow">Robert Jervis</a> quotes Hans Morgenthau:<br />
<blockquote>More than is true for later scholars, Morgenthau traces much of the source of the necessary evil in politics to human nature and &#8220;the animus dominandi, the desire for power&#8221;. Pure selfishness and the desire to gratify basic human needs, such as shelter, food, and security, would only produce some of the conflict we see in our social world because those impulses can often be gratified through cooperation on the basis of mutual respect and equality. &#8220;The desire for power, on the other hand, concerns itself not with the individual&#8217;s survival but with his position among his fellows once his survival has been secured. Consequently, the selfishness of man has limits: his will to power has none&#8221;.</p></blockquote>
<p>Andrew Schmookler provides a different argument, independent of assertions about human nature, in <a href="http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC07/Schmoklr.htm" rel="nofollow">The Parable of the Tribes</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Imagine a group of tribes living within reach of one another. If all choose the way of peace, then all may live in peace. But what if all but one choose peace, and that one is ambitious for expansion and conquest? What can happen to the others when confronted by an ambitious and potent neighbor? Perhaps one tribe is attacked and defeated, its people destroyed and its lands seized for the use of the victors. Another is defeated, but this one is not exterminated; rather, it is subjugated and transformed to serve the conqueror. A third seeking to avoid such disaster flees from the area into some inaccessible (and undesirable) place, and its former homeland becomes part of the growing empire of the power-seeking tribe. Let us suppose that others observing these developments decide to defend themselves in order to preserve themselves and their autonomy. But the irony is that successful defense against a power-maximizing aggressor requires a society to become more like the society that threatens it. Power can be stopped only by power, and if the threatening society has discovered ways to magnify its power through innovations in organization or technology (or whatever), the defensive society will have to transform itself into something more like its foe in order to resist the external force.</p>
<p>I have just outlined four possible outcomes for the threatened tribes: destruction, absorption and transformation, withdrawal, and imitation. <em>In every one of these outcomes the ways of power are spread throughout the system.</em> This is the parable of the tribes.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Meatbomb</title>
		<link>http://bigbigquestion.com/2008/04/04/is-it-our-nature-to-dominate/#comment-2079</link>
		<dc:creator>Meatbomb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bigbigquestion.com/2008/04/04/is-it-our-nature-to-dominate/#comment-2079</guid>
		<description>The story of human history was our desire to love and be loved.  Believe it, live it, and it will come true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The story of human history was our desire to love and be loved.  Believe it, live it, and it will come true.</p>
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		<title>By: jmd82</title>
		<link>http://bigbigquestion.com/2008/04/04/is-it-our-nature-to-dominate/#comment-2040</link>
		<dc:creator>jmd82</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 13:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bigbigquestion.com/2008/04/04/is-it-our-nature-to-dominate/#comment-2040</guid>
		<description>This question reminds me of the Daniel Quinn book Ishmael.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This question reminds me of the Daniel Quinn book Ishmael.</p>
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		<title>By: grumblebee</title>
		<link>http://bigbigquestion.com/2008/04/04/is-it-our-nature-to-dominate/#comment-2009</link>
		<dc:creator>grumblebee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 01:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bigbigquestion.com/2008/04/04/is-it-our-nature-to-dominate/#comment-2009</guid>
		<description>&lt;/em&gt;the story of human history was...&lt;/em&gt;

Silly. That's like saying "moves are about big battles in outer space." SOME movies are. SOME events -- even many events -- in history were prompted by attempts at domination. But not all. Many events were prompted by inventions, migrations, natural disasters, etcetera, etcetera. If you boil history down to a theme, you're not longer looking at anything resembling the truth of messy reality.

Oh.. do humans have an urge to dominate? Of course. It's one of many human (and animal) urges. It exists more strongly in some people than in others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the story of human history was&#8230;</p>
<p>Silly. That&#8217;s like saying &#8220;moves are about big battles in outer space.&#8221; SOME movies are. SOME events &#8212; even many events &#8212; in history were prompted by attempts at domination. But not all. Many events were prompted by inventions, migrations, natural disasters, etcetera, etcetera. If you boil history down to a theme, you&#8217;re not longer looking at anything resembling the truth of messy reality.</p>
<p>Oh.. do humans have an urge to dominate? Of course. It&#8217;s one of many human (and animal) urges. It exists more strongly in some people than in others.</p>
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