Tue 8 Apr 2008
Women, what things do you wish men widely or more commonly knew about womankind? Men, what things do you wish women widely or more commonly knew about mankind? What misperceptions do you think the opposite gender has about your own that you’d wish would be corrected?
Posted by WCityMike13 answers so far!
Men: many of us women were raised to take care of others. That does not mean we like doing it all the time. Also, just shutting off the nurture conditioning doesn’t work for a lot of us. So when you say, “just say no,” or “ why do you let this bother you?” it’s because we were taught that it’s our job to care about things. Also, we are nattering on about stuff to get it out of our system, not to have you provide us with a solution or a quick fix. You can avoid listening to this nattering by offering a foot rub, back rub, or doing some dishes (even a small gesture toward household duties goes a long way, psychologically). And another thing, don’t try for sex with the back rub, sometimes we just want to be taken care of without the sex part. This has happened with every single guy I’ve ever known and I hate it when I am about to fall asleep and then I have to feel obligated to put out or feel guilty about not putting out. Let me get a good night’s rest first. Frankly, I find a guy doing housework sexier than anything else, and I say “thank you” and give hugs all the time when it gets done, so you can do the same when we women perform these tasks.
I’d like to know if all guys played with weapon-type toys (replicas or made-up guns) when they were kids, and why. What’s with getting a kick out of “Rambo” and violence in general? Do all men fantasize about being Rambo or some other equally gun-toting character? Also, do you not see the wee on the floor/toilet seat/wall after you put it there yourself? If so, why do you not clean it up? Just because I was raised to keep a nice bathroom doesn’t mean I enjoy cleaning up someone else’s wee. Are all men’s rooms disgusting places?
Finally, I’d like to know what men talk about with each other. Do they talk about women or cars/computers/violent movies?
Also, do you not see the wee on the floor/toilet seat/wall after you put it there yourself? If so, why do you not clean it up? Just because I was raised to keep a nice bathroom doesn’t mean I enjoy cleaning up someone else’s wee. Are all men’s rooms disgusting places?
FWIW, as a guy, this drives insane too. Nothing pisses me off more than going to a public bathroom where someone couldn’t even use their shoe to put the toilet seat up and instead proceed to pee all over the seat. Uhg.
It would DEFINITELY be GREAT if this didn’t degrade into simply into a litany of complaints about the opposite gender. That’s NOT what the question for discussion was.
I have to admit (and I acknowledge that this is not a useful response, but I’m pretty sure I’ll get away with it on account of being in good with the guy that runs the place) that ever since I saw this question posted, all I can think of to say is “Mankind or Astromankind”.
As far as the spirit of the question: I have a hard time formulating my thoughts this way. For folks beyond those with whom I’m simply casually friendly or acquainted, I tend to form fairly close and relatively few relationships and so don’t really end up often in situations where gender assumptions last beyond a blink and a question to the individual about why they think or say or do something.
So I know lots of things about my wife, and learn woman type things from her and share man things about me with her when they come up, but it doesn’t really fall into a bucket of “things I wish women would know” or whatever. Likewise, I don’t really sit around with my guy friends discussing the things that women just don’t get, because I don’t feel like I’m stuck in a position where there are universal misunderstandings dividing me from my few close female friends.
I don’t know if that’s helpful, exactly, but there it is.
Sorry if it came off that way, Mike. I get along great with most guys and my husband in particular. I don’t care if he likes Rambo, I was just asking why it seems most men like that stuff (my misperception). I also think a lot of so-called gender differences are just different ways of human beings being raised due to their gender and/or culture.
Marie, I’m sorry for snapping at you (and in boldface to boot). My psycho-cranky levels must have been really askew at that moment.
And I’m sorry I tried to imitate Erma Bombeck very badly. I will shut up now.
Aw, you guys.
Sorry to get back on topic… I don’t really have a list of things men should know about women, or that men need to learn. There are people I don’t understand and people I think need to learn a few things, but it’s not on gender lines. I don’t understand women any more than I understand men most of the time, and I don’t think you can generalize behavior as much as most people try to do, if that makes sense.
Thanks for the Man or Astroman reference. That made my night :)
This is such a trap with my name on it. *sigh* But I think what I think, so here goes:
Men, most women are highly intelligent when it comes to interpersonal communication, but this sort of intelligence is not nurtured and encouraged in a goal-oriented way, which leaves lots of women feeling ill-at-ease with the boundaries between their inner sense of reality and their abilities to manifest it outwardly. In other words, they sense things about people that are labelled as too complicated to address or express. While men bottle up their emotions, women bottle up their analysis. Often, this results in a rather neurotic, passive-aggressive approach to getting what they want. On top of that, they’re trained not to put their wants first in their lives. on top of that, our ability to handle stress fluctuates a lot with the cycle. So, try to get women in your lives to feel okay with flexing their female-type intelligences and expressing all their weird feelings in healthy ways and and I think they’ll be a lot happier.
Talking about the genders in a binary fashion is tough, and I find myself reverting to advices that apply to both… like moar affection & moar sexin’ = moar sanity, but
Many PEOPLE are ashamed of their sexual feelings.
In my experience, pop culture tells us that many women are ashamed of feeling lust. But we’re less likely to hear about men who are confused and ashamed of their urges. There are certainly plenty of examples of men who approach sex with bravado and confidence. (Some of these men seem like positive examples of the male animal; others seem like cads.)
I come from an over-educated, over-liberal background. (As a teenage male, I subscribed to “Ms. Magazine.”). I realize my experience is not representative of males in general. I even realize that it’s not the most common male experience. But I bet it’s fairly common amongst participants here. I’m a heterosexual male, raised in the 70s and 80s, who learned that my sexuality was shameful, brutish, and best kept closeted.
Actually, I grew up in a sort of Catch-22. I yearned for women and yet so wanted to be a gentleman. My female friends heaped praise on my conduct and told me that they wished they’re boyfriends could be more like me. Then they said, “I don’t know what’s wrong with me. Why can’t I fall for a nice guy like you?” Why? Because I’d subdued my “bad” sexuality to a point where it didn’t show at all. Many people thought I was gay or asexual. Who would be attracted to someone like that?
The facts: I look at women and I feel lust. In fact, like many men, it can be (but isn’t always) completely impersonal. I can see certain body parts and feel lust. I don’t need to know anything about a woman’s personality in order to feel lust. I just need to see her legs or whatever. I have no control over this.
(I have TOTAL control on my actions. I am NOT in any way suggesting that women should accept aggressive, clumsy or unwanted advances.)
I have no control over these feelings and sensations. And yet I feel — or I was raised to feel — that they’re bad. They’re bad because my feelings objectify women. So like a black man who is “bad” because of his skin color, I’m bad because of something equally not-under-my-control.
Male friends and family members haven’t helped. They’ve either been just as confused as I am. Or they’ve been bastards who go to the opposite extreme, reveling in their lust, catcalling, etc. Positive role-models don’t exist — or at least they didn’t for me.
Women have been of no help. They’ve sent me a clear message that I’m bad if I’m sexual but unappealing if I’m not.
What’s helped has been years and years of self-examination. At 40, I’m finally at a place where I’m (relatively) at peace with my sexuality, and I have healthy, mutually-satisfying relationships with women (especially with one woman in particular). But why did it take so long? Why did I have such a perverse upbringing? And why do I have to watch other, younger guys going through the same thing? (It equally saddens me to see women growing up sexually confused, but I think that’s a bit off-topic for a male to post about in this thread.)
To be honest, what would have helped me the most would have been some small acknowledgment, by a woman, that I wasn’t a bad person because I felt lust. And I’m talking about verbal acknowledgement. I don’t mean that women should have had sex with me to make me feel better.
Here’s what I wish more women — at least the ones I grew up with — understood: all (or most) heterosexual men lust after women in an impersonal way. If they claim they don’t, they’re probably lying. (With good reason: they don’t want to be told they’re bad.) That doesn’t mean they ONLY lust in that way. Yes, I have feelings when I see lips, breasts and legs. But those feelings are nothing compared to what I feel when I’m with someone I truly care about, someone I know… Yet those simpler lustful feelings are still real and powerful. So I’m always going to be most attracted to my wife. I’m always going to lust after her more than anyone else. Love is a powerful aphrodisiac. But I will also lust after other women. I’m a grown up. I won’t act on that lust. But I’m also powerless to stop it. (Luckily, I’m married to a woman with whom I can be open about this stuff. She and I both tell each other when we see a hot chick or hot guy walking down the street. It’s not a big deal. We laugh about it. That’s SO freeing. But my God, the years it took to get into a relationship like that!)
I’m glad I live in a culture where men are chastised (or punished) for making unwanted advances.
I’m glad I live in a culture where men are chastised for making unwanted, lewd comments.
I wish we’d push such chastisement even further. I hate to think of what my female friends have to go through on a daily basis, just walking around the city, minding their own business.
But I loath the fact that I — and other men like me — have to keep such a deep part of themselves hidden, for fear of being hated by women. Many men that I’ve spoken to about this claim that this is a major factor that drives them to strip clubs and hookers. It’s not just about getting off; it’s also about being fully accepted as a sexual being. Put crudely, a stripper isn’t going to tell you you’re bad because you’re looking at her tits. (I’m not suggesting women should put up with lewd, prolonged stares from men.) It’s sad that some men have to pay to feel un-closeted.
I also get nervous any time society prompts people to bottle up uncontrollable feelings. It usually leads to no good.
This is such a trap with my name on it. *sigh* But I think what I think, so here goes:
Bravo for your bravery.
This is a contentious topic. Like race, it’s also a deeply important topic. For the good of society, those of us who have thoughts and questions need to be brave and speak up. We WILL get some flack. We need to push past it. We need to wait until everyone calms down and then gently bring up our points again. We need to keep doing this and doing this and doing this.
I agree with a lot of what Grumblebee wrote. Even in the way he structured it, it’s possible to see the great lengths he went to to ensure that he wouldn’t be misconstrued.
I’m growing up about 20 years later than him, but feel many of the same things. Recognising sexual urges, but unwilling to act on them because that’s what bad guys do, to put it simply. I was able to work through this a few years ago and realise there are ways to act on these urges without being a bad guy, but even still I’m always excessively cautious around people I’m interested in because I don’t want to be thought of as ‘just interested in sex’.
As for things I wish women more widely knew… actually, I wish all people more widely knew that sex is not at the forefront of every male brain. It’s a part, sure, but so many sitcoms and commercials and comedians and movies play it up as the defining characteristic of all men, and I have no doubt this just perpetuates it.